Spoilers below.
Kate Herron considers The Last of Us: Part II—the PlayStation video game from which HBO’s The Last of Us season 2 is adapted—to be “one of the smartest games on empathy ever made,” she says. “I felt like the game was always having a conversation with you about it.” That exercise in empathy is what drew the Sex Education and Loki director to lead the latest episode of The Last of Us, in which Ellie (Bella Ramsey) and Dina (Isabela Merced) exchange two major reveals—Ellie is immune to the Cordyceps fungus, and Dina is pregnant—before sharing their first sex scene.
“I love that their romance is more of a slow burn in the TV show” than in the video game, Herron tells ELLE.com. In the game, Ellie and Dina have their first sexual encounter early in the story, shortly after sharing a kiss at a New Year’s party and before Ellie’s father-figure, Joel, is brutally murdered. In the show, it takes the characters weeks to build up such a flirtation, and they have sex as part of what Herron describes as “a release.” Having nearly escaped death and shared their respective secrets by the end of episode 4, they finally take the plunge.
“It feels, to me, very earned,” Herron says. “It made complete sense to me, seeing what [showrunners Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann] were doing with Dina’s story. When you’re going to [veer] off from something you’re adapting, just let it be richer or do something more interesting, which I feel the changes here have done.”
The director also stressed how she tried to place the viewer in Ellie’s shoes in episode 4, particularly in the moments leading up to the sex scene. “When you’re playing a video game, you’re obviously making these active decisions,” she says. She wanted to re-create the effect that the game invoked, but with different tools to force viewers into Ellie’s point of view: framing, scene cuts, a lantern blocking Merced’s face from the camera, and so on.
Below, Herron discusses the importance of approaching the queer love scene with authenticity; her interpretation of the scene in which Ellie sings A-ha’s “Take On Me”; and what she’s working on next.
Tell me about the challenge of balancing the levity and the horror of this episode. I’m thinking of the scene in which Jeffrey Wright’s character, Isaac, tortures a Seraphite, juxtaposed with the scene of Ellie singing “Take On Me.”
I think the Ellie and Dina story in this episode is all the more powerful because you see this backdrop of a nightmare that they’re in. It’s so important that you know that Isaac is a real threat to them. Abby is not just “Abby and her friends.” This is an army of people, and they are organized and they are tough and very scary. And I think that’s what you realize in the conversation with Isaac. Ellie and Dina have stepped into this war between these two groups that they don’t understand yet.
You’ve mentioned in other interviews that the “Take On Me” scene was meant to signal to the audience that Dina’s attraction to Ellie isn’t “just a crush.” She’s in love. Why was that so important for you to establish in that moment?
Honestly, it was never a question for me. Because the friendship between them is so deep, how could it not be love in some ways, you know what I mean? There could be an interpretation, because of what happens in episode 3, that, yes, maybe Dina is simply confused and they love each other as friends, and Dina’s just lonely. But I think that’s what’s so beautiful in this episode: You have to earn the [pregnancy reveal and sex scene] in the theater at the end. It’s a rug-pull moment, but one that didn’t come out of nowhere.
When you see someone that you love doing something so well, is that not just the best thing in the world? I think Dina realizes in that moment, seeing Ellie play “Take On Me,” like, “Oh, no. I am in love with this person.” For me and Craig and Izzy [Merced], we were all very united that, in Dina’s arc, this would be the point where she would be like, I’m in love.
In the game, Ellie and Dina have their first sex scene much earlier in the chronology of events than in this TV series. The game’s sex scene also has a much different underlying tone. Tell me about filming this scene with Bella and Isabela. How did you all go about making it feel passionate and real while staying true to the context of the episode?
For us, the most important thing was making sure it felt like an authentic queer love scene between these two characters. We worked with our intimacy coordinator [Katherine Kadler] with Bella and Izzy to make sure that scene had the level of truth to it that all of us were feeling.
I really wanted to make sure we didn’t give any surprises away too early. And I think a big factor of that is the lantern with Dina [that Merced holds in front of her face]. I think that really helped us. In terms of how I filmed it, I always wanted us to feel like we were right there with Ellie, you know what I mean? We didn’t know what Dina was thinking at all. When Dina says, “I’m pregnant,” you’re with Ellie. You’re like, “What are you talking about?” It completely catches you off guard.
And then [the sex scene] was meant to feel like a release. Because Dina thought that she had lost Ellie. So it has to be this cathartic experience. Like, “We can actually die right now, so I’m just going to live my truth.” I think that was always very important.
I was so interested by Ellie’s reaction to Dina’s pregnancy. In the game, she’s much more frustrated and even upset about the reveal. In the show, she’s thrilled. Do you feel as though Ellie and Dina are being naive about what this pregnancy means for them and their revenge mission, or is there something else going on? Something other than naiveté?
What we were going for, in the moment where Ellie finds out, was reinforcing how on-board Ellie is with this person. She’s just like, “I’m in. If you’re pregnant, great. I am going to be the parent. That’s how invested in my life being entangled with yours I am.”
They know the risks at hand, but Dina is like, “No, I’m coming with you. I’m not just going to stay here.” For them, there’s an understanding of the dangers, but…They only just now have been like, “I love you.” How can they then be apart?
Am I correct, or is this just a rumor that I’ve come across: You’re potentially returning for season 3 to direct another episode?
I can’t confirm anything. I’m not allowed to say anything. [Laughs.]
Fair! You probably can’t talk about this either, but since I have you: Is there any update you can share about your work on The Sims movie?
Yeah, sure! I can’t give any update other than saying we’re busy working away and we’re all very excited. That’s all I can say.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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